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Tom Witt
interviewed by Anthony Qaiyum on October 9, 1995
"Something different than a typical vacation where you stay in a Holiday Inn..."
Tom Witt is the Southern African studies advisor for the Center for Global Education.
Tripod: I assume that South Africa has some exciting travel and study opportunities. Can you tell me about some of those offered through your program?
TW: Certainly. We've been offering educational travel seminars in South Africa for about five years, and have done about 15 or 16 delegations of US citizens that have traveled to South Africa -- and also to Namibia and to Zimbabwe. It has been, and continues to be, a tremendously interesting area of Africa to go to. So much has been in the news in the past five years with the dismantling of apartheid, and, more recently, the first free elections in South Africa. It's a unique opportunity for US people to look at a place in the world that's really changing quite a bit -- struggling with social change, struggling to become a democracy now after 40 years of white rule.
Our programs really look pretty closely, from the grassroots perspective, at the changes happening in South Africa. Most tours would start with the four star hotels, and do museums and game parks. Ours tend to start with three or four days in Sueto, spending time meeting members of the black community, talking to them about their lives, their struggles, their hopes for the future -- meeting with organizations working on the ground for change. But at the same time, we'll meet with all kinds of perspectives -- the old National Party government, the new AMC government, conservative whites, progressive whites. But our program, I would say, is rooted pretty solidly in the experience of the black community, and it makes forays into the white community and power structures rather than the other way around ... It's an opportunity to get a very intense and incredible look at what's going on in South Africa.
Tripod: Because of the changes in the political and social environment, have you found that your programs attract a particular type of person?
TW: Yes and no. It does attract people who are looking for something different than a typical vacation where you stay in a Holiday Inn, and visit a game park, or shop, or go to a museum. It attracts the kind of person that's really interested in meeting people, encountering people, and looking at social and political issues. But within that there's a real broad range of groups ... We've done seminars for churches that have relationships with other churches in South Africa. We've done groups of lawyers, health care workers, teachers, activists, people who've been involved in anti-apartheid movements ... a real varied group. But certainly there has to be the interest there to dig into a country in a way that another kind of tour would not.
Tripod: Have you seen a growth of interest in the South African programs?
TW: Yeah, I think there has been. There was a tremendous interest back in 1990 when so much was happening, although it was perceived also as a dangerous place to go. I think the perception is that it's less dangerous now, but there's still interest, because people want to see what the new South Africa is like. They've read about Nelson Mandela, they've read about the AMC, they've read about anti-apartheid, and they want to experience them for themselves.
"...you learn much more when you are brought into first-hand encounters with the people who are experiencing the issues rather than being given a lecture about that..."
Tripod: Does your program have a mission statement?
TW: The center was started back in the early 80's with the intention of bringing people of North America face-to-face with people of other cultures. Particularly people struggling for justice and human dignity. Our philosophy of education is that you learn much more when you are brought into first-hand encounters with the people who are experiencing the issues rather than being given a lecture about that. So we really try to have our seminars be very experiential ... I would say that our bias, if we have one, would tend to be exposing people to voices that aren't heard in other forums, such as the media. We tend to base our travel seminars out of the experience of the marginalized and the poor, yet they get a pretty good cross-section of folks -- government people, and business people. And there's always time to experience the beauty of South Africa. The trip in February will go to Cape Town which, I think, is one of the most beautiful cities in the world.
Tripod: What expertise do the leaders of the program have?
TW: We have staff -- full-time or consultants -- that live in South Africa. They are either US people living there or South Africans living there. Their job really is to keep a pulse on who are the connections, who are the people to talk to. They really facilitate the learning experience. The primary teachers and resource persons are South Africans, themselves. Our staff people facilitate them by setting appointments, experiences, contacts, logistical things.
Tripod: Although officially segregation has been outlawed, we all know that old attitudes die hard. Do you find that participants in your program, especially non-white travelers, have problems on the South African programs?
TW: Back in 1990 once, I was with a mixed group -- black and white US people -- that stopped in a conservative rural area, kind of a roadside little shop, and the blacks were refused service. I don't think that would happen today. It might in certain areas of South Africa. But, it was quite an interesting educational experience for the whole group, because then the whites were forced with the decision of "What do we do?" We, as a group, decided that none of us would buy anything, and we would ask the proprietors to tell the African-Americans directly, rather than telling the whites that the African-Americans weren't welcome there.
Tripod: How did it turn out?
TW: Well, we expressed our displeasure at that, and -- I should tell you that one of the aspects of our seminars is that we gather as a group every other night or so for some reflection time. So, not only is it a collection of experiences, but examining those experiences ... That created a tremendous opportunity for reflection.
I think, for African-Americans it's a different kind of experience than for white Americans -- not that it's all the same. Some African-Americans go there and really feel a very deep connection with Africa itself, and find it to be a coming home experience. Others find themselves to be much more American than African. They say, "These aren't my people. My people are back in the States." But in terms of analyzing what is going on, I would say African-Americans have special insights that always enlighten a mixed group in terms of reflecting on an experience, and particularly ... how this is similar to what's happening in our own country. One of the most valuable things that people learn from looking at apartheid is the dynamics of US racism -- How do we have apartheid like conditions in our own country? ... You can make a lot of comparisons to a Native American reservation in the US.
But I would say that there hasn't been difficulties, by-and-large, with African-Americans. South Africa is such a funny country in terms of the segregation being so intentional that you are just coming in and out of worlds -- there are many places that an African-American would feel much more comfortable than a white American, and vice-versa.
Tripod: Who is eligible for your seminars?
TW: Anybody over 18 ... We have people from 18 to 75 on our trips. They're from all over the country -- all types of backgrounds ... A dozen is probably an average size group. We like to keep them small, so that people can have experiences in homes, visiting organizations, projects, neighborhoods ... And the South Africa seminars tend to last two weeks.
Try these places for more information about the Center for Global Education and their South Africa travel seminars:
Web: http://aug3.augsburg.edu/global/index.html
Email: [email protected]
Or write or call:
Center for Global Education
Augsburg College
2211 Riverside Avenue
Minneapolis, MN 55454
Phone: 612/330-1159
Fax: 612/330-1695
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