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WORK & MONEY

Patrick Scheetz
interviewed by Emma Taylor on December 6, 1995

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"Work experience has a higher value than most educational experiences."

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Patrick Scheetz, director of the Collegiate Employment Reserach Institute at Michigan State University, is the author of a nationwide hiring survey released this week.

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Tripod: Your survey concludes that college grads can look forward to improved job prospects this year. Which industries have the best prospects?

PS: The employers in the electronics, computers and electrical equipment manufacturing, aerospace, merchandising, retailing, hotels, motels and restaurants are anticipating the most substantial increases in job prospects this year.

Tripod: What caused this year's improvement in job prospects?

PS: Well, it's not a dramatic improvement by a long shot. When you look at 4.7 percent increase in light of a more than 30 percent decline from 1988 to 1992, this is a slight improvement. There are some additional opportunities, so some more of this year's graduates will find jobs, but this is by no stretch of the imagination a flush market where everybody will get a job. That's not true. It's very competitive out there. All you've got to do is ask a few of the students who have been interviewing already, and they will tell you it's tough to land a position.

Tripod: In such a competitive market, what makes a college grad stand out? What are employers looking for today?

PS: Well the employers described that for us, thank goodness! Each year we change the questions we're asking, and this particular year we asked them what they thought were the criteria that made a college student better than his peers.

Among the criteria that they put on top were energy, drive and ambition -- they said that they need somebody who is approaching the job hunt enthusiastically, with some confidence, expecting to do a fine job. They said, two, they need someone who is a quick learner, who asks questions, rapidly adapts to the work world, doesn't rely too much on the textbook learning that they've already had. Someone who is analytical, who is willing to continue their education ... And three, someone who has excellent working knowledge of computers -- word-processing, spreadsheets, data basing, presentation software. Someone who has excellent writing skills, excellent oral communication skills, excellent listening skills ... someone who has diversity awareness, understands political correctness, treats others with respect and dignity.

So that was the employers' description of what makes an outstanding new hire in their organization. It's not likely that one college graduate would have all this, but they would like that individual to have as many of these competencies that they could get.

Tripod: What about experience? Your survey found that internships are more important now than ever, right?

PS: Oh you bet. Prior, career-related experiences were an important selection criteria when they were choosing an individual for an opening. Of last year's new hires, 48 percent had career-related work experiences during their college career. It is the employer's expectation that the graduate would have those experiences. It's like, if you went into heart surgery -- you would ask if the surgeon had ever operated on a heart before. Well, why wouldn't an employer ask the same question of you? How do you know that you're familiar with the occupation at all, if you've never worked in it.

So I think that the direction of colleges and universities in the future will be career-related work experiences. I think some colleges will even guarantee that their new graduates have x number of hours minimum to graduate. Already, some of our hotel-restaurant schools around the country have that as a requirement prior to graduate. It's the direction everything is headed, from my perspective.

Tripod: How may companies did you survey?

PS: We surveyed four thousand -- we received replies from 527.

Tripod: How has the importance of computer literacy changed over the past few years?

PS: It has increased very dramatically. If you look beyond five or six years ago, there were many typewriters around the office environment. Today, it's difficult to find a typewriter anywhere in the office environment. Almost everybody in the work environment has a computer on their desk, or a laptop that they carry with them. So, if you can't operate a computer in today's environment, you are a low man on the totem pole when it comes to those being considered for job opportunities.

Tripod: Even in the process of the job search, both grads and employers are using the Web, right?

PS: You bet. One of the resources that I suggest new graduates use is Yahoo -- it has pointers to many many job search resources. Every graduate ought to know about Yahoo.

Tripod: You mention the importance of life-long learning in your survey...

PS: Well, too many of our graduates, once they get their degree, say, "Well, this is it, never again am I going to take a class." They swear by that. Well -- they just committed themselves to unemployment, because employers today expect that on the first day on the job, you'll begin learning. You'll learn a new job, you'll learn new techniques, and for the rest of your life in that organization, you'll continue to learn new techniques, new processes. In the future, change is just inevitable, and therefore you are going to have to continue to take classes, attend seminars, even make presentations for workshops, to keep the work environment up to date with the latest technologies, the latest techniques that can make that world you're in work more efficiently. It's inevitable -- lifelong learning is a part of tomorrow, whether we like it or not.

You better just, in your own head, turn on the message that says, "I love going to school!" Just make that an expectation, and if you turn on that message to yourself, then I think that the results will be very positive for you.

Tripod: I hear again and again that an undergraduate degree is now so common that a graduate degree is necessary to really advance in the workplace. Do you agree?

PS: Oh, I can introduce you to a bunch of PhDs who now say that they are overeducated for the jobs available in the market today. So, you can go both ways. ... If you are getting an advanced degree with the assumption that this advanced degree will get you a job, that is an invalid assumption. You better look at the job market ... don't go in blind -- an advanced education does not necessarily mean a lower unemployment rate.

Tripod: What are the most competitive fields for recent grads right now?

PS: Well, you just have to look at our salary chart. Those at the bottom of the chart -- the reason they are down there is not because somebody wished them to get the lowest salaries, but because there are more graduates receiving degrees in those occupations, therefore the employer can offer a lower salary, because there are sufficient numbers of people applying for the jobs, and they can expect that the graduates will take it. The reason chemical engineers are at $41,000 is not because these employers love to pay $41,000 for a chemical engineer -- that's the going price that has been established by the market place. A lot of it has to do with supply and demand.

Tripod: What professions have the lowest starting salaries now?

PS: Journalism, liberal arts, human ecology, home economics, communications, advertising, natural resources. The engineers are the ones in demand.

Another message is -- if you're talking to individuals who are now in high school, and are approaching the college age, I would encourage them to stay in the maths and sciences. As long as they can stay in with enthusiasm. Because those high demand fields require a strong element of mathematics and sciences. It seems that many students, when they reach college age, have already decided, "I hate math, I hate science."

Tripod: How should students spend their time outside of the classroom, to help in their job search? Extracurriculars, summers, etc.?

PS: Well, the fact that they are doing extracurriculars is very valuable experience, because it gives them experiences in team situations -- the employer wants a well-rounded individual, they don't want someone who is absolutely brilliant with no common sense. In the employers eyes, they get that with three or four different elements. One is academic preparation, yes. Two, they want that college student to get work experiences. They do want them to work. Third, they do want them to participate in extracurricular activities -- intramurals, team environments -- where you have to produce results for a whole organization, and not just yourself.

Tripod: What surprised you most in the results of your survey?

PS: Well, I was a bit disappointed that there wasn't a stronger representation of the liberal arts there. But the employers are saying that they would like those engineers and business majors to have a stronger element in their education. They would like those individuals to get a broader educational background.

Tripod: Languages are particularly attractive to employers, right?

PS: Yes. And, even overseas internships or educational experiences. They want the college student to work in a multi-cultural environment.

Tripod: So a student shouldn't feel bad about choosing travel abroad over a summer internship?

PS: Well, that depends on what the choices are. If it's one or the other, what other experiences do they bring to the table once they graduate? Somewhere along the way, the employer does want that internship. If this is their sole internship, and they trade it off, what are they going to bring to the table? If they have no work experience, then they may have traded off a good job offer. Work experience has a higher value than the overseas educational experience does. Or really, a higher value than most educational experiences. It doesn't say that you learn everything at work, but it does say that work plays a big part in your development as a prospective employee.